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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:53 am 
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Dangerous
Dangerous
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:21 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Niagara, Canada
Quote:
Hmm.. nothing I can see of note in your logs.. other than your Mesa drivers being slightly out of date.. (I'm running 17.2.8 on my Mint machine) but I doubt that's anything to worry about.

I can't think of anything else to suggest just now.. since the same set now causes no apparent problems, I'm inclined to put it down to one of those weird things that theoretically can't happen, but which computers seem to manage to do, now and then. Odd how a theoretically deterministic machine can sometimes produce quite different results from identical conditions, but there it is..
Just as a FYI for anyone interested; I've just downloaded a completely fresh copy of Oolite and installed a set of extensions from the manger, set the graphics to 'shaders enabled', and the program crashed. I've since set the graphics to one notch below shaders, with the same extensions, and it hasn't crashed yet. ... So I'm probably going to just give up on shaders (and thus on decals) for the foreseeable future. (And probably uninstall all those Griff shaders retextures, in favor of whatever's listed as noshade ones.)
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/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Norby.Separated_Lasers.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Norby.ShipVersion.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Norby.Sniper_Gun.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Norby.Telescope.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Norby.Telescope_Extender.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Norby.TheCollector.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Norby.Towbar.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Norby.Trails.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Norby.Trail_Detector.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.ocz.SUWitchdrive.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Okti.CargoScanner.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Pagroove.FamousPlanets.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Pagroove.Superhub.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Selezen.SpyHunter.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.SMax.FuelGenerator.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.SMax.MFDRestoreAfterLoad.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.smivs.Delightful Docking.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.smivs.ExtraFuelTanks.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.smivs.GalDrivePod.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.smivs.Liners.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.smivs.yellooCabs.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.spara.audible_docking_clearance.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.spara.behemoth.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.spara.commodity_markets.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.spara.griff_normalmapped_ships_replace.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.spara.ImperialAstrofactory.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.spara.in-system_taxi.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.spara.manifest_mfd.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.spara.market_observer.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Anaconda.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Asp.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Asteroids.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Boa.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Boa_MkII.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Cargopod.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Cobra_MkI.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Cobra_MkIII.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Constrictor.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Escape_Capsule.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Ferdelance.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Gecko.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Griff_shipset_decals.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Krait.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Mamba.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Mamba_alt_texture.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Missiles.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Moray.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Python.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Shuttle.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Sidewinder.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.StartinGriffCobraIII.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Station_Bundle.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Thargoids.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Transporter.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Viper.oxz
/hd-c/temp/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.Griff.Worm.oxz
AddOns/Basic-debug.oxp
~/.Oolite/AddOns/HomeSystem v0.10.oxz

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:42 am 
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What you can try - if your GFX driver has the option for setting threading optimization, turn it off.


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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:48 am 
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Quote:
What you can try - if your GFX driver has the option for setting threading optimization, turn it off.
I'm afraid my eyes are drifting closed on me, so I'm powering down for the night, and will only be able to start looking that up tomorrow. (If anyone wants to look that up while I'm asleep, my machine is a Thinkpad 410, the graphics card is an NVIDIA Quadro NVS 3100M, and I'm running Fedora 26.)

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Well I guess the nose art idea got shot down or left behind cause none of this seems to be about that.

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Quote:
Well I guess the nose art idea got shot down or left behind cause none of this seems to be about that.
It's a bit of a tradition around here that threads sometimes get derailed - it's both a blessing and a curse, as some of the best discussions started off about something else, but it can be a pain when you are trying to resolve something.
I think the consensus from earlier on in the thread is that this is a nice idea and would be popular, except it is pretty much impossible to do within the way the game works.

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:31 pm 
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<chortles> There have been some classic derailments over the years!

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Quote:
04:43:37.677 [rendering.opengl.version]: OpenGL renderer version: 3.0.0 ("3.0 Mesa 17.2.4"). Vendor: "nouveau". Renderer: "NVA8".
Unless you're really into the "purist only open source" crowd, I'd recommend switching the "nouveau" NVidia driver with the one provided by NVidia as a first step into getting better graphics from your card.

I'm not sure about mobile cards too much, but on my (extremely very) old Dell with also an NVidia mobile chip Oolite doesn't crash with shaders enabled, although getting snail like slow in specific views (3-4 FPS).


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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:04 am 
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Unless you're really into the "purist only open source" crowd, I'd recommend switching the "nouveau" NVidia driver with the one provided by NVidia as a first step into getting better graphics from your card.

I was going to suggest the same thing.. your graphics chip is actually far more capable than the Intel HD3000 in my laptop (OpenGL 4.3 vs 3.1 for starters), yet my laptop handles Oolite's shaders just fine. In researching your issues, I came across someone with your graphics chip and drivers reporting problems with another program, which were resolved by upgrading to the bleeding-edge 17.2.31 Mesa drivers. So it appears the issue may actually be your current drivers.

Since bleeding-edge isn't really a comfortable place to be, I'd say give the proprietary Nvidia drivers a shot and see if that helps..

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Last edited by Diziet Sma on Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:07 am 
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Quote:
I think the consensus from earlier on in the thread is that this is a nice idea and would be popular, except it is pretty much impossible to do within the way the game works.

Agree.. with the proviso that I'd have added "at present" to the end of that sentence.. if the core code was changed to suit, perhaps something could be done.. probably still not easy to do, though.

_________________
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied


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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:55 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
04:43:37.677 [rendering.opengl.version]: OpenGL renderer version: 3.0.0 ("3.0 Mesa 17.2.4"). Vendor: "nouveau". Renderer: "NVA8".
Unless you're really into the "purist only open source" crowd
Short version: I really tend towards the "purist only open source" philosophy (even if I don't always live up to it). :)

Longer reply: For years now, it seems that every time software manufacturers try to introduce some new form of closed-source blob, like replacing BIOS with UEFI Secure Boot, it's never for the end-user's benefit, and almost instantly becomes a vector for yet another form of malware that has to be constantly patched to defend against. I'm not saying open-source is a perfect solution; but it's at least a noticeably lighter shade of grey. (I'm also in favour of open hardware, for similar reasons; if I could swap out all of my CPUs for equivalent RISC-V chips, I'd do it as soon as my budget permitted.)

Put another way, when faced with making a choice about whether to use any particular piece of closed-source software, such as Nvidia's closed-source drivers, I weigh the low odds of extremely negative consequences from malware bricking my computer and corrupting my data versus the high odds of mildly increased utility (in this case, a nicer-looking game), I tend to choose to avoid the worst-case scenario, even if it's not particularly likely. (I could go on about various aspects of this for quite some time, but I'm not sure I want to be responsible for double-derailing this thread. :) )

Other folk have different priorities and come to different conclusions; that's fine, and I usually try not to butt in on their decision-making processes unless asked. (After all, one part of the Unix philosophy is "Be liberal in what you accept and conservative in what you emit".) And I could always change my mind in the future. But for now, I think I'll stick to the nouveau driver, at least when I'm not spending my Oolite time reading stories instead of playing the game. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Deadly
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Quote:
But for now, I think I'll stick to the nouveau driver, at least when I'm not spending my Oolite time reading stories instead of playing the game. ;)
Well, at least now you know what would be the first step to take in order to fix your shader issue.
As a side note, one of my first actions when dealing with NVidia on Linux is to disable nouveau and install the proprietary blob. As unfortunate this would sound, it definitely smooths the stability curve for the systems.


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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:31 am 
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Could anybody point me in the right direction how Griff designed the decals for his Wolf Mark II ? I tried to replace with my own set but while direction and rotation seems to work the decal itself (just a simple logo) never showed up.

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:15 am 
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Hi montana05
It can be a bit tricky replacing the ship decals, but it is possible :)
So, from looking at the Griff Wolf oxz, it's reading in the artwork for the decals from another oxz called "Griff Shipset Decals" which is filed under the "Miscellaneous" category on the oxz manager. If you're seeing a skull and crossbones decal appearing on your GriffWolf in game then you've got that oxz installed and all we need to do is open it up and replace the griff_decals_player.png inside it with your own artwork.

Right, this is where I'm going to get confusing, i'm terrible at explaining this stuff, like really really bad!

I'm on Windows 10 64bit, and i've installed Oolite to it's default location (C:\Oolite on my hard disk)- so to find the "Griff Shipset Decals" oxz I need to browse to this folder on the computer:
C:\Oolite-Trunk\oolite.app\GNUstep\Library\ApplicationSupport\Oolite\ManagedAddOns\ and oolite.oxp.Griff.Griff_shipset_decals.oxz
should be in there - might be different on Linux and Mac

The safest way to edit this oxz and not break anything in oolite is to copy it to somewhere on your computer and work on that version then pop it back into oolite's ManagedAddOns folder when we're done, so copy the oxz, then on the copy, rename the file extension on the end from .oxz to .zip - so the whole file name is now oolite.oxp.Griff.Griff_shipset_decals.zip

You should be able to open this .zip file and now inside you'll see a 'Textures' folder and inside that the file griff_decals_player.png

Rename your new ship artwork to griff_decals_player.png and pop it into the zip overwriting the griff_decals_player.png that is already in there, I think that's all you have to do, you don't have to 'save the zip' it should do this automatically I think, but if it asks you to save the changes then say yes.

All we need to do now is rename oolite.oxp.Griff.Griff_shipset_decals.zip back to oolite.oxp.Griff.Griff_shipset_decals.oxz and pop it back into C:\Oolite-Trunk\oolite.app\GNUstep\Library\ApplicationSupport\Oolite\ManagedAddOns\ overwriting the one in there.

We should be ready to go, so start OOlite (you might have to do this whilst holding down the 'shift' key on your keyboard from the moment oolite starts loading up until the spinning cobra titlescreen appears - holding shift when starting Oolite gets it to reload in all our oxz addons again, it's to ensure that it sees our updated decal artwork.

hopefully you should now see the decal on your ship. Your artwork needs to be in a 'power of 2' size, so 1024x1024 pixels or 512x512 or 256x256 etc. if you save your art with a transparent background then the transparency will work in game too so your decal won't have a big square of colour around it! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:46 am 
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Thank you a lot for this detailed information. I certainly didn't expect a response that fast from the master himself.

In my WIP Galactic Navy Extend I replaced the Wolf Mark II Paragon from Military Fiasco with your model, so, similar to Random Hits, I copied the entire ship (downloaded from your page) in my OXP. As I remembered from your Boa PT replacing the decals is the easiest way to add new designed logos to the ship. So my first test design looked like follow:

original NPC:
Image

my drafts:
Image

Boa PT modification:
Image

Obviously the size isn't optimal yet and I actually could cut it down to 1 maybe 2 logos if I modify the shader as well. However, the entire logo didnt show in some test runs. I will give it another try following your exact instructions according the decals, specially the exact size.

Thanks a lot again.

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 Post subject: Re: Decals and Nose art.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:10 am 
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Oolite 2 Art Director
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ah sorry, I didn't twig it was NPC decals.
Yes, you don't need to put in a row of 16, you can edit the shader if yuou want to use a shorter row or just one decal, I think you probably know this, but just in case anyone else is wondering it's this line in griff_wolf_MKII_NPC.fragment
Code:
 const float kDecalCount = 16.0; // Match the number of Decals in your texture
if it doesn't match how many decals you have in your row then they'll appear all stretched in game.
NPC decals also work a bit differently to the player ones in that they're a single colour design, with a different decal design stored in each colour channel and the alpha in the .png- it's so there can be as much variety as possible whilst using as little texture memory as possible.
Your full colour decals look really great though so it would be a shame to not have them in game, i'm a lot out of practise with oxp'ing but I could probably cobble an NPC shader that uses full colour decals - am I right in thinking that it's the normal mapped boa oxz that your using at the moment, just want to make sure I work on the correct shader

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