Oolite sequals and Nwetonian physics.

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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If there ever were Oolite sequals based on Elite 2/3 would you want the Newtonian Physics?

No bloody way...
37
64%
Yeah bring it on.
12
21%
Dont mind either way
9
16%
 
Total votes: 58

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Oolite sequals and Nwetonian physics.

Post by RustiSwordz »

The question says exactly what it means... over to you.
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Hoopy
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Post by Hoopy »

Yes.... BUT physics would then need to be tweaked to make it proper playable.

Original Elite does something similar by making everything very big and very fast and giving you a jump drive so you don't spend weeks transiting in system.

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Post by TGHC »

Having never played FFE or FE2, I can't answer, though after having frequented the EBBS and Oolite BBS for a while, it seems that with the Newtonian flight control it's just like Marmite, you either love it or hate it.
My view is that it's a computer game, and providing I can travel to and from planets in reasonable real time I don't mind. I also am led to believe that you don't get the same dogfighting action as you do in elite/Oo/lite, so I would probably say no bloody way.
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Post by Cmdr. Maegil »

TGHC wrote:I also am led to believe that you don't get the same dogfighting action as you do in elite/Oo/lite
The mechanics are totally different: while in E/Oolite it's more of a flash reflexes tag game, it gets much more technical in FE2/FFE - you are nearly completely unable to control the ship (much less fight) if you can't think in vectors.
so I would probably say no bloody way.
It's like marmite, or an acquired taste. Not for everybody, anyway.

And... Don't forget that you DON'T have to like it, or play it at all. Let who likes it have their fun!
You know those who, having been mugged and stabbed, fired, dog run over, house burned down, wife eloped with best friend, daughters becoming prostitutes and their countries invaded - still say that "all is well"?
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Post by davcefai »

I would imagine that the big difference would be that once you've accelerated you would coast until you flipped over and fired the engines to kill your speed.

It would completely change the game, it would no longer be Oolite!

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Post by Roberto »

What I said here.

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Post by Cmdr. Maegil »

davcefai wrote:I would imagine that the big difference would be that once you've accelerated you would coast until you flipped over and fired the engines to kill your speed.
Indeed, all you need to do is check for how long you accelerated to know at what range you must flip. I usually went full burn half the way, flipped and kept the full burn the other half - it helped (methinks) to avoid some pirates (I'd usually be on my way to furball big time with the Imps, so I had no use for petty melees). In FE2 there was also the long range scanner that showed other ships on the system chart, allowing for even more planning...
There are several approaches ranging from autopilot all the way on max dreamer, to carefully balancing the fuel/time expenditure.

It would completely change the game, it would no longer be Oolite!
Of course it wouldn't -- but the question was about sequels, not OXPs. :wink:
Anyway, in Oolite you don't have to plot a intercept course to match the space stations' orbits in order to dock manually, nor know that a lower orbit is a faster one...
You know those who, having been mugged and stabbed, fired, dog run over, house burned down, wife eloped with best friend, daughters becoming prostitutes and their countries invaded - still say that "all is well"?
I'm obviously not one of them.

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Newtonian Nightmares

Post by *cat »

Newtonian Physics made me give up on Elite - it was no fun at all. I've no idea whether having the option of newtonian/non-newtonian control is easy or totally impossible, but I don't think I'd play a newtonian Oolite.
It would be possible to imagine a complex system of computer controlled thrusters that would give a ship the impression of operating in a non-newtonian (ie Oolite) way.

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Re: Newtonian Nightmares

Post by TGHC »

*cat wrote:It would be possible to imagine a complex system of computer controlled thrusters that would give a ship the impression of operating in a non-newtonian (ie Oolite) way.
Very feasible, as I've said before the Typhoon eurofghter is unflyable without its 4 computers which compensate and correct everything.
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Re: Newtonian Nightmares

Post by The Edible Poet »

TGHC wrote:
*cat wrote:It would be possible to imagine a complex system of computer controlled thrusters that would give a ship the impression of operating in a non-newtonian (ie Oolite) way.
Very feasible, as I've said before the Typhoon eurofghter is unflyable without its 4 computers which compensate and correct everything.
Thats a very good point.


The problems not really with the newtonian physics per say. Realistic solar systems with everything that that entails navigating them were lovely. :D

The problem with Frontier was the combat didn't feel like it rewarded much player skill or tactics at all. Which was a poke in the eye for everyone who got addicted to the original because of it's decent space punch-ups.

I don't think it's the Newtonian physics that people have a problem with, it's just they want imersive and engaging combat that rewards a players combat experience. After all, thats what that whole rating system thing is all about right?
[I think Oolite scores very highly in that department, greatly improving on the original, so full maks to everyone who's helped to make it that way :D ]


I like the idea of computers that would make ships maneuver in a more pleasing way to their pilots, in a Newtonian physics environment. After all, you get ABS and traction control on cars.

[BTW. How easy is it to get FFE going on an Intel iMac? Might see if I can get it going, as I only played Frontier back in the day].

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Post by Disembodied »

The basic problem with integrating Newtonian physics into Oolite is fuel (well, actually, there's the small matter of all the programming, but we'll lay that to one side for the moment :wink: ). All these thrusters require reaction mass, for that equal-and-opposite thing. In Oolite, fuel is for hyperspace jumps only: you can scoot about in-system for ever and never use a thimbleful of Quirium. A while back I came up with a (sort of) explanation for this, or at least a rationale... it's something to do with Heim Theory, probably. If you ask me.

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Post by Captain Hesperus »

Disembodied wrote:The basic problem with integrating Newtonian physics into Oolite is fuel (well, actually, there's the small matter of all the programming, but we'll lay that to one side for the moment :wink: ). All these thrusters require reaction mass, for that equal-and-opposite thing. In Oolite, fuel is for hyperspace jumps only: you can scoot about in-system for ever and never use a thimbleful of Quirium. A while back I came up with a (sort of) explanation for this, or at least a rationale... it's something to do with Heim Theory, probably. If you ask me.
I think it's all in the realms of the Inertial Damping System on Star Trek.....

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Re: Newtonian Nightmares

Post by Commander Mysenses »

The Edible Poet wrote:[BTW. How easy is it to get FFE going on an Intel iMac? Might see if I can get it going, as I only played Frontier back in the day].
Is an imac up to emulating Open GL on a PC?
http://www.frontierastro.co.uk/Hires/hiresffe.html

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or does this help any?,
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan. ... db299c8265

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Re: Newtonian stuff

Post by aceone »

Hey all, I’m one of the three that voted ‘don’t mind either way’ thus far in the poll. What I really wanted to vote was ‘not sure’ as I’m not very experienced at fe2 or ffe but I would definitely err on the side of fun over realism but I have an idea in which the two could be combined to some small degree.

In elite space is very viscous, ie has lots of friction so that as soon as you set the throttle to zero the ship stops (within 1 game frame, ie maybe 1/60th of a second). In frontier as soon as you set the engines off, you stop accelerating and continue on at your present speed, ie zero friction, you will continue on for infinite number of frames.

In between the two is where space has some friction, perhaps not enough to stop you within 1 frame like elite but will stop you eventually. Perhaps in two frames, perhaps in one second, perhaps in ten seconds, perhaps depending on how fast you are going.

I see this as a super set of the elite physics. All the elite ships can behave exactly as they do in elite, new faster ships might tend to slip and slide a bit as a consequence of their speed or perhaps it can be explained away as a consequence of how their new engines work. How much they slide, a little or infinite as per frontier is completely tweak-able by the game designers, ie us.

An analogy, which I sometimes think of as appropriate, is that of cars. Elite is where the car never loses traction or slides. Frontier is where the cars are on an ice rink and never gain traction. What I’m suggesting is where slow cars never loose traction but the harder you go the more the car/ ship will begin to drift. I think this could be fun.

Some other unrelated details to my idea… There would be a top speed for ships, the speed would be relative to the sun. Planets would not orbit the sun so that one can easily approach a stationary planet and hover or land on it. Perhaps planets could spin on their axis for day night cycle, but this might make landing on them more difficult.

Anyway, my main idea is the physics, which I see as elite plus a hint of frontier. Any thoughts or comments? …

cheers :?:

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Post by Commander Mysenses »

Have a look at,
http://www.a-astra.com/

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