[1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by Keeper »

I just noticed that in both this and in the 1.79 shipdata.plist, one of the roles on the Cobra Mk I is "escort-light". That should be just "escort". To be thorough, I checked and saw no "hunter-light", so those are OK. And the Cobra Mk I is the only ship with "escort-light"; the other light escort ships are properly given plain "escort".

While I'm at it, I just noticed that the autoAImap.plist does not have any of the assassin roles in it, so presumably no ships are using the oolite-assassinAI.js unless specifically set up for it (and currently no core ships are). (Maybe the assassin AI doesn't work yet, so not setting it up in the current trunk is deliberate...?)

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by cim »

Keeper wrote:I just noticed that in both this and in the 1.79 shipdata.plist, one of the roles on the Cobra Mk I is "escort-light". That should be just "escort". To be thorough, I checked and saw no "hunter-light", so those are OK. And the Cobra Mk I is the only ship with "escort-light"; the other light escort ships are properly given plain "escort".
Thanks. I'll put a fixed release out at some point.
Keeper wrote:While I'm at it, I just noticed that the autoAImap.plist does not have any of the assassin roles in it, so presumably no ships are using the oolite-assassinAI.js unless specifically set up for it (and currently no core ships are). (Maybe the assassin AI doesn't work yet, so not setting it up in the current trunk is deliberate...?)
The populator sets up the AIs anyway, but that's true, it really should be checking for autoAI before it does, and using the autoAImap to pick the AIs to use. I'll fix that.

(The assassin AI works and is definitely in use)

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by Cody »

cim wrote:The assassin AI works and is definitely in use
<grins> Erm, yes... I can confirm that!
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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by kanthoney »

cim:
If it needs rebalancing by shifting more NPCs to pulse lasers rather than beam lasers and/or reducing NPC group sizes then that's what the testing of 1.79 will hopefully discover.
I'm playing around with an idea that'll hopefully give the NPC's a more sluggish, human-like like reaction time, to make up for the fact half of them are now carrying around an aimbot. The current mad plan is:

1) Record the positions of entities every 1/3 of a second;
2) Use the last 3 known positions to interpolate where the entity is now;
3) Make the NPC's aim for the interpolated position instead of the ship's actual position.

I theory, if you fly in a predictable manner, such as in a straight line or with a constant turn rate, the NPC's should be able to track you accurately, but there should be a slight lag in reaction time if you make sudden course adjustments.

My first attempt at implementing this didn't go too well - it turns out the player entity update function doesn't call the superclass update function, which meant the interpolated position for the player didn't get updated. This meant the pirate NPC's couldn't figure out whether I was in scanner range or back at the space station, which fried their little NPC minds. I'll have another go at it tomorrow.

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by Diziet Sma »

kanthoney wrote:I'm playing around with an idea that'll hopefully give the NPC's a more sluggish, human-like like reaction time, to make up for the fact half of them are now carrying around an aimbot.
An excellent idea, which I heartily endorse! 8)
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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by Lestradae »

cim wrote:This is a very small OXP which overrides the roles defined by a replacement shipset to bring them back to the Oolite 1.79 default roles. So you can now use your favourite replacement shipset from an older version and get to try out the full effects of the new NPC ecosystem at the same time. It doesn't affect addition shipsets at all.

As it's only useful in 1.79, it's available in OXZ format only: download Shipset Compatibility 1.1.

If you're not using the 1.79 nightly builds, or not using a replacement shipset with them, this OXP is not useful for you.
I am now experimenting with the 1.79 nightly build, and notice that most if not all of my addition shipsets don't seem to be used for player shipyard and NPC either :(

For example, no Griff (addition shipset) ship at all ... could this be the reason? And if yes, how can I / will this be solved in the future?

Or am I on the wrong track concerning what might be the problem?

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by Keeper »

Addition shipsets would need their own such compatibility OXP to make their ships use the new roles introduced in 1.79.

For example, I just finished making one for the Staer9 set, though I haven't played the game yet to make sure it loads properly, so I haven't uploaded it just yet. I'll do so tomorrow or Monday (I'm on Pacific time, so that's "tomorrow or Tuesday" for most of you!).

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by cim »

kanthoney wrote:I'm playing around with an idea that'll hopefully give the NPC's a more sluggish, human-like like reaction time, to make up for the fact half of them are now carrying around an aimbot. The current mad plan is:
Sounds a good idea (though I will note that even the half with improved aim are still worse shots than I am, especially at long range)
kanthoney wrote:My first attempt at implementing this didn't go too well - it turns out the player entity update function doesn't call the superclass update function
Not the first time that's caused problems, either. There are very good reasons it doesn't call the superclass update function, but that needs better documentation.
Keeper wrote:Addition shipsets would need their own such compatibility OXP
Well, or some extra lines in this one might be easier for players to manage: it doesn't hurt to have override blocks for ships which aren't installed.
Lestradae wrote:I am now experimenting with the 1.79 nightly build, and notice that most if not all of my addition shipsets don't seem to be used for player shipyard and NPC either
Player shipyard shouldn't be affected - I don't think that code has been touched at all recently. NPCs ... the addition ones will probably show up less frequently since there are several new roles they don't have, but they should appear in the old roles (trader, hunter, pirate) as before. I'll grab a couple of addition shipsets and have a look.

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by kanthoney »

cim wrote:Sounds a good idea (though I will note that even the half with improved aim are still worse shots than I am, especially at long range)
Well, yes, but you've got 16,000 kills IIRC. You're not really the benchmark for a typical pilot!

Anyway, the idea seems to work in principal - the NPC's are finding it harder to get more than the odd hit if I duck and weave, but if I straighten out (for instance, to take aim) they're quickly back on me. However, the best bet for someone of my level of crapness is still to run away and pick them off from long range with a rear military laser.

Talking of which, there really needs to be something an average Jameson could take on - at the moment, the only thing likely to attack you is a marauding pack of pirates. Maybe it should be a sport for the big pirate packs to throw captured traders (or out of favour gang members) into a beaten up old Gecko and tell them to go out on their own and get some loot. If they manage it, they can join the gang. If not, the Gecko's rigged to explode...

While I'm thinking about 1.79, has anyone else noticed the lack of cargo in the game? There used to be loads of flotsam and jetsam around you could pick up, and if you blew up a pirate python it'd often be carrying platinum or gold. Nowadays I'm lucky if I get a metal fragment, which is invariably haring off at top speed so I have to use injectors to catch it up.

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by Cody »

kanthoney wrote:... has anyone else noticed the lack of cargo in the game?
Not really - in fact I scooped some nice booty last night. Mind you, the scavengers can be pretty damn quick - they 'rob' me frequently.
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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by cim »

kanthoney wrote:However, the best bet for someone of my level of crapness is still to run away and pick them off from long range with a rear military laser.
Really, there are very few times that's not an effective tactic...
kanthoney wrote:Talking of which, there really needs to be something an average Jameson could take on - at the moment, the only thing likely to attack you is a marauding pack of pirates. Maybe it should be a sport for the big pirate packs to throw captured traders (or out of favour gang members) into a beaten up old Gecko and tell them to go out on their own and get some loot. If they manage it, they can join the gang. If not, the Gecko's rigged to explode...
With the new combat AIs, anything that could reasonably be defeated by an inexperienced player in a stock Cobra III will not be selecting a Cobra III of unknown specification and pilot skill as its target: they'll wait for a Cobra I or a Moray to go past.

A way for players to join a trader as an extra escort or a pirate/hunter group as an extra fighter - and be counted within that group for everyone's combat odds assessments and group combat alerts - might be the way to do it. Then you can get involved in a "fair" fight - and have someone around who'll ECM for you if you keep them alive - as an alternative way of making early-game income than trading. That's a lot of additional work, though.
kanthoney wrote:has anyone else noticed the lack of cargo in the game?
This might be shipset related - I did change a few of the cargo generation numbers for 1.79's core set now that cargo is pregenerated. What shipset(s) is this with? Certainly I find pirate Pythons and Cobra IIIs tend to leave behind something worth picking up.

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by kanthoney »

cim wrote:What shipset(s) is this with?
Hmm. Griff 1.34. Probably don't need that around any more. Anyway, getting rid of it seems to have worked. Thanks!

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by cim »

kanthoney wrote:Hmm. Griff 1.34. Probably don't need that around any more. Anyway, getting rid of it seems to have worked. Thanks!
Okay, that's a few more additions for the next release of this OXP, then.

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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by pagroove »

A way for players to join a trader as an extra escort or a pirate/hunter group as an extra fighter - and be counted within that group for everyone's combat odds assessments and group combat alerts - might be the way to do it. Then you can get involved in a "fair" fight - and have someone around who'll ECM for you if you keep them alive - as an alternative way of making early-game income than trading. That's a lot of additional work, though.
I hope you can implement this. Would be great :D
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Re: [1.79-only] Shipset Compatibility

Post by Cody »

cim wrote:A way for players to join a trader as an extra escort [snip] and be counted within that group for everyone's combat odds assessments and group combat alerts - might be the way to do it.
I do wonder how many players would have the patience to stick with an Anaconda plus six through the long, slow, crawl in-system. I've run as an unofficial escort for traders/convoys many times, and it is rewarding, in its own way - but it does require a lot of patience and dedication.

If you mean just join a convoy temporarily when things are tricky, then cruise on ahead when trouble has been averted - that's a different matter entirely.
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