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Oolite Bulletins • Tionisla Orbital Graveyard - Page 2
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:17 am
by Rxke
Darn phones. Where was I... (behind my computer that tries to emulate a blast-oven, of course!)

Eminently (where do i keep getting these words, BTW) possible, Selezen, at least, I think...

way to go:

1) generate central custom station at a very strict point (you can affect the 'strictness' of placing by using different coordinatesystems, )
2) perimeter buoys, probably also non-generic, w/ message etc, at equally strict places,
3) 'special' monuments (i.e. designs people come up with, there will be few, initially, so they get more or less strict placings, beginning from close to the centre...)
4) filler: 3/4 'generic' tombstone designs, just generate a lot of them, spred randomly...

No biggie. :) :?

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:19 am
by Selezen
OK, in that case, the line should maybe read

Code: Select all

do = ( "addShipsAt: coriolis 1 psu 0 0 0.1" ); 
Something somewhere (the Dark Wheel, I think) mentioned that the graveyard is between the planet and the sun. To fly there, visitors leave the planet and head straight for the sun.

Hence, the above code should put the coriolis between planet and sun, at a distance of 1/10th of the total distance between planet and sun. It should put it closer to the planet, since I put P for planet first, right?

How does one place objects in positions relative to other objects? For instance, I would like the perimiter beacons to be 5000m from the station.

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:38 am
by Rxke
Right.

It was just laziness I put it between witcpoint and planet, so it was easier to find...
How does one place objects in positions relative to other objects? For instance, I would like the perimiter beacons to be 5000m from the station.
I guess that's where the headscratching might start...

you can use the offset parameters, but it would be trial and error to get a good looking thing...
But it's probably better to just calculate the coordinates, using an xyz matrix...

(scratch, scratch. I know it should be straightforward, but my chaotic maths approach needs pen and paper for these kind of things...)

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:42 am
by Rxke
I would like the perimiter beacons to be 5000m from the station.
:shock: that's way too close, really better 25 km or more...

I suggest you try the oxp i cobbled together, just to get a feel for its dimensions, it's very well possible to fly through it, even the NP ships do it w/o problems, but i guess the thing's about 200-500 km wide.... (which is still very small, astronomically speaking)

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:45 am
by Arexack_Heretic
Could the krait patroll be added too?
A couple of groups of 3 Krait, skirting the perimeter.

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:06 am
by Selezen
Rxke wrote:I suggest you try the oxp i cobbled together, just to get a feel for its dimensions, it's very well possible to fly through it, even the NP ships do it w/o problems, but i guess the thing's about 200-500 km wide.... (which is still very small, astronomically speaking)
Problem I have is that I don't have a mac. I'm still waiting on someone answering my question about the PC version and whether or not it can accept OXPs.

After looking through some of the docs for Oolite and OXPs, I can see that my scale idea is a bit compressed. I think the graveyard should be up to about 500km wide.

I just about crashed my computer there. I made my space station design a little out of scale. It was 50,000 units in diameter in Wings 3D.

I'll keep looking at the plist files, especially from your OXP and see if I can work any of this out.

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:31 am
by aegidian
Selezen wrote:
Rxke wrote:I suggest you try the oxp i cobbled together, just to get a feel for its dimensions, it's very well possible to fly through it, even the NP ships do it w/o problems, but i guess the thing's about 200-500 km wide.... (which is still very small, astronomically speaking)
Problem I have is that I don't have a mac. I'm still waiting on someone answering my question about the PC version and whether or not it can accept OXPs.
Sorry for the wait. Yes, the PC version can accept OXPs - there have been a few problems with compatibility between the types of .plist file the PC can accept (initially it could only read ASCII .plists not XML), but I think that's been fixed now.

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:32 am
by Rxke
Arexcack Heretic, the Kraits are possible, Yesterday I followed some NP ships going around, even fighing near/in the middle of the Sacred Field :shock:

It's actually great to go through the Yard, despite the machine coming to a near-complete stop at times, it's majestic.... :D If only that buggy thing with the on-screen messages could somehow be fixed...

I guess we'll eventually come up with a modified Krait, call it 'Keepers of the Tombs' or whatever, and give them a dedicated AI: stay in group, stay around Yard, heh, maybe (i came up with this one first!) add a bunch of crazy Religious Guards, that deliberatly crash into whoever triggers an alarm, heehee. Just tweak their AI's a bit.

*To Do: witchspace beacon sending out something like 'Graveyard under control of time-molasses-technology' :lol: (that would explain low FPS....)

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:01 am
by Selezen
Giles - thanks for tidying up our mess! :wink: And thanks for the response on the PC version's compatibility. I will try and install the alpha tonight (permission from female counterpart pending) and load up the OXP.

And in case I forget later, thanks to everyone for the help with this. I'm probably gonna ask a load of stoopid questions along the way, but I'm pretty excited about the project.

I know I said I wouldn't, but I've been playing a bit with the 3D modelling side, and am going to try and create some textures for ships to use in the graveyard. There will be Kraits and Worms, both bearing black bands on the hulls. Thanks again to you, Giles, for providing the base ship models and the instructions for Wings. The only problem is that I will need an assist on using the exporting script. Do I run the python script from Wings or is it a Mac thing?

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:42 am
by Rxke
I guess that would better be adressed in the "designing new ships etc. " topic (which we so neatly hijacked) or the Wings 3D topic...

Like the black band idea.

Oh, and there are no stupid questions when it is for the Good Cause (TM)

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:32 pm
by Arexack_Heretic
La-di-dah, let me highjack you in return! ;)

I did a nice station for the Tomb of commanders, based on an octagon,
Also a basic skin for it.
It is a bit smallish, as a Python would have trouble scaping its hull inside.
Will post it in the Yahoo-group, in wings format, for your considderation.

Also have a few krait variants lying around...
one Supercharged Krait and two fishy adaptations for my Aquatic fleet,
shall post those meshes too.

Arexack

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:16 pm
by aegidian
Selezen wrote:Do I run the python script from Wings or is it a Mac thing?
Er. You really need a PC guy to answer this.

Obj2DatTex.py is a script (a series of instructions in a text file) that's meant to be executed by a language called Python http://www.python.org/ which is cross-platform (you can download the Windows installer from them).

You basically feed it any number of .obj files (by typing python Obj2DatTex.py someobjfile.obj at the CLI) and it pumps out .dat files as it goes.

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:27 pm
by Rxke
I've seen them, my first use of Wings evar, BTW...

Looks nice, has a menacing and tomblike quality in one. :cool: and the smallish entryhole is ok, IMO. One shouldn't go bumbling with a freighter there... But, to be honest, I do not like the skin. But that's personal.

I had something sinister in mind, like shiny black, with gold veins (hard to look at, so you don't know how big it is, but still errr... 'classy'

The Kraits look very nice, but i'd have to see them in flight first, it looks like the backside is a bit too elaborate, but that's because of no skins, I'm sure you have something in mind that makes that weird behind look good.

Soooo... Should we get started?

who does the coding? :twisted:

I want to, but I'm a bit slow, I work very chaotic, and since this will in essence stay a WIP for eternity, we should document what we do.

Step one: build an empty OXP, set up the central Undertaker-Station...
and then start brainstorming. (tweaking its AI for starters... Or rather...

Where is the Undertaker_Station located exactly? What source do we follow (Dark Wheel or...)

Oh, in desperate need of generic tombs/monuments nothing too fancy, and preferrable something with at least one line of symmetry (I want them all to rotate, more or less, because now when they get generated, they all face the same way... Or is that good? Maybe they *should* all face sunwards, or planetwards?

Much talking will surely follow, heehee.

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:21 pm
by Selezen
I've set up an area on my site for information and piccies of stuff that I do.

You can find it at http://elite.hughesd.co.uk and click on the 'OOlite Devs' link in the menu.

Currently it has a piccy of the perimeter beacon I'm working on.

A_H, I like the station design. However, will it not be better processor wise to base the station dsign on a simple polygonal model, maybe like a simple cube, or a cylinder. I'm just thinking about ease of rendering.

I was envisioning the station at Tionisla GY to be an older model station, maybe predating the Coriolis. It would thus be small and low-tech, and would have to spin, I suppose.

I like the Krait model with the cylindrical extension on the back. I like the others too, but maybe not for the GY. The cylindrical extension could be a universal docking collar, and could be used as a large airlock too, for monument maintenance.

I envision the GY as a quiet, respectful place. I'd like to go with the descriptions from The Dark Wheel, seeing as that is the primary source of information.

The only other bit of prose I have about it is the following: it was written about 6 years ago, and ain't that good, so apologies. If you think anything here is useful for the model, then feel free to use it:
Jes Walker was half-way round her two-hourly patrol of the immense graving docks when the comms channel sounded. Flipping open the intercom, she answered, “Patrol 2 here, what’s up?”

“Walker, this is Ops,” came the supervisor’s voice. “Could you get over to Gamma section please? Beacon CT-5 has stopped transmitting.”

Walker raised her eyebrows, “On my way. What co-ordinates?”

“Five-four by one-nine.”

Walker acknowledged and wheeled her Krait class fighter around to head back to Gamma. Tionisla Orbital Graveyard wasn’t exactly a hive of action, as most of the inhabitants were dead, and the rest of the ships in the area were empty monuments to their late pilots. Oh, now and again a little event might come up, but on the whole these were usually identified before the patrol ships were called in. The yard did take up a lot of space though, so now and again something went wrong. This transponder loss was probably just a short-out on the power circuits.

Jes entered Gamma section, and lowered her speed to enter the yard space. She kept a close eye on the readouts as well as the screen, and so knew something was wrong as she arrived at the co-ordinates. She hailed ops.

“Ops here. What is it, Jes?”

“You did say 5-4 by 1-9, didn’t you?”

“Confirmed. What’s wrong?”

Jes cleared her throat. “Umm...the transponder isn’t working because it’s gone.

“What about the ship?”

“What ship?”

A pause. “Oh hells. Hang on and I’ll check the inventory.” The comms went dead briefly. “CT-5 is listed as a Cobra 3, registry LV251-V5, named Legacy. You’re sure there’s nothing there?”

“If there is, I just flew through it,” replied Walker.

Jes could hear the rhythmic sound of the ops officer tapping something on the console. “Damn,” he muttered. “I’ll log the Legacy as missing. Return to patrol, Jes.”

“Acknowledged,” she replied and vectored to her route again. It was surprising how many times young joyriders tried to acquire one of the tomb ships, but it was rare for them to succeed. Usually the sensor web caught them trying to move out.

Outside the graveyard, unseen by Walker or the ops officer, the burnt shell of beacon TC-5 tumbled towards Tionisla’s sun. Beyond its mournful shape, two red engine outlets glowed, visible for only a moment, briefly highlighting the neat writing etched into the carbon scoring of the transponder: “War Is Coming”

Then the glow faded, and the beacon drifted unseen; black on black.
[fixed link - aegidian]

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:01 pm
by Rxke
Re: keep shapes simple: that won't probably not change much. Rendering 500-ish object *will* bring your system to a slowdown, even if it's a G5 (at least, I think, someone has a high-spec machine to try out the graveyardHack?)

I'm assembling some stuff, right now (AI's mostly) but it's sooooo hot in here (37°C, sigh...)
(Off, taking a look at Selezen's work)