Re: Elite: Dangerous - and the return

Off topic discussion zone.

Moderators: another_commander, winston, Cody

User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 14095
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Corke's Drift
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Cody »

drew wrote:FD are playing rather 'fast and loose' with the lore... even their own lore...
Out of curiosity... what's happened to the writers bible?
Give me five, I'm still alive
Ain't no luck, I learned to duck

User avatar
drew
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2186
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 9:29 am
Location: In front of a laptop writing a book.
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by drew »

Cody wrote:
drew wrote:FD are playing rather 'fast and loose' with the lore... even their own lore...
Out of curiosity... what's happened to the writers bible?
It underwent a spontaneous existence failure.

Cheers,

Drew.
Author of the Oolite Saga, the officially licensed Elite: Reclamation and Elite Dangerous: Premonition
WebsiteFacebookTwitter

User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 14095
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Corke's Drift
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Cody »

<nods> Sounds about right.
Give me five, I'm still alive
Ain't no luck, I learned to duck

User avatar
ClymAngus
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2508
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:31 am
Location: London England
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by ClymAngus »

Ooo that must have pissed people off. I remember reading a lot of blogs about how, many people sweated a lot of blood hammering that thing together.

Can anyone say "artistic project disillusionment?" :D

User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 14095
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Corke's Drift
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Cody »

Give me five, I'm still alive
Ain't no luck, I learned to duck

User avatar
Selezen
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2512
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:14 am
Location: Tionisla
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Selezen »

drew wrote:
Cody wrote:
drew wrote:FD are playing rather 'fast and loose' with the lore... even their own lore...
Out of curiosity... what's happened to the writers bible?
It underwent a spontaneous existence failure.

Cheers,

Drew.
No it didn't. It's still there. Most of it is in the RPG background section. ;-)

It'll be interesting to see how much of it is permitted to be published, though.

TBH most of the lore hasn't been touched in the ED universe. Frontier haven't focused on the history of their universe in the game, focusing more on current events.

The writer's bibles have lots of hooks into different stories, but Frontier have always said that the writer's bibles were more focused on providing writers with the background to narratives rather than "canon" information. Inherently it SHOULD be canon, but like all world builders they will change canon if it pushes their story forward. Case in point is the death of the Emperor yesterday. There are no male heirs. Will the Duval male line stop there and will women be allowed on the throne in direct contravention of everything that was held dear by the Imperial Nobility?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with Drew. Frontier's treatment of the writers and their body of work has been abysmal. The support up to publication was adequate, but the post-release mentality at Frontier seems to have been "eh, we've done what we said we'd do - f**k em." Which is really really bad.

Powerplay is a weak, empty attempt at making "Elite: Game Of Thrones" (which would have been a far more honest title for 1.4). It's backed up by poor writing, poor characterisation and lack of imagination. Player factions being added to the mix is a step in the right direction for player immersion but is still f***ing weak. The concept is good for the narrative but it has been executed very very badly. As has been said before there are a clutch of experienced, GOOD fiction writers out there. Let them loose with Powerplay and the expanding universe and see where decent writing can take the Elite universe. And if not, then PLEASE introduce the copy writers to spellcheckers and proofreading!!!

I'm getting the feeling that populating the "galaxy events" is too much work for the team at Frontier. Only three main storylines in a universe this size? and only one news source?? Come on, Frontier, look outside your window for five minutes and look at the eager, talented and ultimately BORED community that the game has and tap them for ideas. Credited, of course.

User avatar
cim
Quite Grand Sub-Admiral
Quite Grand Sub-Admiral
Posts: 4018
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by cim »

A lot of Elite Dangerous is "that's not how I'd have done that" for me, of course - inevitably so, perhaps. And, in all fairness to Frontier, they know their market - most of the requests on the forum from other players are to make things even less like I'd have done them.

Setting detail and coherence is the one that I think is the most different from what I'd have done, though. At all levels it's either absent or less than was in previous games:
- virtually no system descriptions beyond a few handwritten ones and ones inherited from Elite/FE2/FFE
- almost no planet names beyond the ones from KS backers and the ones inherited from FE2/FFE, even for worlds people have spent centuries terraforming or living on
- bizarre inconsistencies in information provided: you get told in-game to the exact unit how much of an abstraction ten people possess and exactly what they can do with it, a quantity no-one in universe would know ... and you have to go off to external player-created sites to find out what the maximum speed of a ship with a particular load is without testing it personally ; the location of black markets is advertised galaxy-wide but the prices on legal markets are in a change from the previous games not even advertised within the same system
- "The near-instant Frame-Shift hyperdrive has massively shaken up society ... explorers are spreading out across the galaxy and discovering hundreds of inhabitable worlds daily, with a fast ship able to reach the other side of the galaxy in less time than a ship 15 years ago would have taken to jump to the next system" \\ "New station construction and system colonisation falls to its lowest level in centuries ... no system-level powers care about anything beyond their immediate neighbours"
- Only spaceship manufacturers are allowed to advertise anywhere on an orbital facility
- Federal Corporations / Imperial Senators / etc., on taking over a pirate outpost, keep the giant holographic pirate head projector running.
- Empire has moved from European Feudal to Roman Empire as its historic analogue ... but kept the European ranks for its military
- Both the Empire and the Utopians describe their own activities in the sort of sinister terms one would usually have to go to their enemies or independent parties for. [1]
- Five distinctive and intentionally unreliable perspectives of the FFE journals replaced with the incoherent perspective - but largely "definitive" voice - of Galnet.
- Authority checkpoints positioned in deep space such that they can't possibly check anyone
- and lots of other things especially around the details of Powerplay and the interaction between it and the rest of the game

In part it's a tricky task - no Elite game yet has given a convincing portrayal of why pirates should exist at all, when the risk:reward is so much worse than honest work, but now it's expected to be a player lifestyle on a par with the others and it suddenly is a big problem with them in a way that it wasn't in the other games. Wars now have to be resolved neatly within a few days (far too slow, say the players who want to "win" that part of the game) when in the old "slow hyperspace" games they could have taken six months of game time and still lasted for less experienced time for the player. The shiny super-detailed graphics mean that anything beyond a bit of text has to be harshly prioritised and mostly gets missed out, and the scope as a whole is hugely ambitious too (though almost everything I've listed above is text issues and much of it could be done with existing functionality)

But for the most part it's obvious that they're just not making that sort of game and the majority of their players are happy with that.

[1] Given Frontier's own ability for PR failures and unclear communication out of game, I now have no idea whether they intended this reading of the faction publicity or not. For all I know the Utopians are actually supposed to be the game's "designated good guys"

User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 14095
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Corke's Drift
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Cody »

What he said! <chortles>

Behold the all new Cobra Mk IV - a special exclusive for 'loyal fans'. <grins wryly> It ain't to my taste, that's for sure!
I'll be sticking with my Cobra Mk III, of course - it does all I need. The experiment continues!
Give me five, I'm still alive
Ain't no luck, I learned to duck

User avatar
phkb
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 2714
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:37 pm
Location: [p]laying [h]ard and [k]icking [b]utt somewhere in G7...

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by phkb »

cim wrote:<snip>
I haven't played E:D, and I don't think I ever will (my budget doesn't run to buying expensive PC hardware), but when I read things like this I find I just want to make Oolite better. I start thinking of extending the descriptions of the planets (there's only 2048 of them, how long could it take! :lol:), or writing a war zone OXP that turns "civil war" planets into live battle areas, or working with the "deadly disease" planets and having disease spread and having missions to combat it, or so many other things to make the universe we enjoy so much richer. If only there was more time I could devote to it! Does any one else feel like that sometimes? So many ideas, so little time!

A lot of us experienced Elite in the 80's, and fell in love with the way it worked. In different ways each of the sequels have removed something from the original, and left fans of Elite with a slightly off taste. "It's not Elite" seems to be a common phrase. There's something about the way all it's different parts hold together that makes it so enjoyable. The simplistic flight rules, the one planet per solar system, the limited range of government types, everything combined into something far more satisfying than any individual bit could hope to be.

Oolite is not Elite either, but I think it captures all the feel of the original, and provides authors and players the ability to make the universe their own. Oolite gives us freedom: freedom of expression, freedom of play, freedom of vision, even beyond the free-ness of the download.

I guess if I'm saying anything at all, is to say thank you to all the devs, both present and those who aren't here anymore, for giving people like me Oolite. My computer would be a very dry and dull place without the fun Oolite provides.

User avatar
chrisjj
Above Average
Above Average
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:08 am

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by chrisjj »

Hi Dave

> One of the bonuses for Kickstarter pledgers was that all future updates would be free.
> That includes the big ones.

FD said Horizons updates for Kickstarter backers are free only to backers that paid >=£100.

Soon after FD changed it to >=£80. Cutting out only (!) three quarters of the backers.

A reminder that what Mr Braben says before he's got your money may differ from what he says after he's got your money.

Something I first learned in 1984. :)

Chris (ex-Acornsoft)
Last edited by chrisjj on Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Griff
Oolite 2 Art Director
Oolite 2 Art Director
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Wales

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Griff »

hi chrisjj, welcome to the boards. :D Thanks for your work at Acornsoft bringing us Elite, i still remember clearly going to my mates house and seeing it running on his bbc computer for the first time, i was spellbound, i couldn't belive such a thing was possible on a home computer.

:| Maybe it's just that screenshot but that cobra Mk4 design almost looks like Frontier are trolling everyone with a late April fool (see also the recent 'eagle' with the sports car spoiler on the back :lol: )
Wish they'd put this cobra design into the game, i think this bit of early concept art might be the highlight of the whole game for me, the newly announced buggy driving addon sounds fun though, might give that a go when it comes out

Image

User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 14095
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Corke's Drift
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Cody »

Welcome aboard, Commander - from another '84 veteran!
chrisjj wrote:A reminder that what Mr Braben says before he's got your money often differs from what he says after he's got your money.
<nods sagely> I'll make no comment about sales weasels.
chrisjj wrote:Soon after FD changed it to >=£80. Cutting out only (!) three quarters of the backers.
Only after some protests on the forum - and reluctantly, methinks.

@Griff: yeah, I've got to agree!
Give me five, I'm still alive
Ain't no luck, I learned to duck

User avatar
pagroove
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 3035
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:52 pm
Location: On a famous planet

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by pagroove »

I did try Elite Dangerous Today. But I deinstalled it after one evening of playing. It is nice but I decided that I still like Oolite better. Besides it isn't running very good on an early 2011 Macbook Pro while Oolite runs like a dream.

Maybe somewhere in the future when I have a new system. For now it is in the fridge. ;).
For P.A. Groove's music check
https://soundcloud.com/p-a-groove
Famous Planets v 2.7. (for Povray)
Image
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13709

User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 14095
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Corke's Drift
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by Cody »

I found this post (and the following two posts) on the ED forum interesting.
Give me five, I'm still alive
Ain't no luck, I learned to duck

User avatar
ClymAngus
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2508
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:31 am
Location: London England
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - and other stuff!

Post by ClymAngus »

Selezen wrote: No it didn't. It's still there. Most of it is in the RPG background section. ;-)

It'll be interesting to see how much of it is permitted to be published, though.

Is this publicly accessible of a writers perk? I have a small interest in history. :D


On the copyright front, I would consider it inadvisable reminding anyone at Fronteer that we still exist (and are doing reasonably well) despite their brand spanking new version. You are a playing unit, one which has a certain monetary value. As soon and the value of the playing units is higher than the perceived cost of the bad press generated by shutting oolite down. Bye bye.

In that event I suggest we all f**k off to the dark web. (it's roomy, they have inflatables!).


"There are no Shulths in Elite Dangerous and they never will be."

Post Reply