Oolite Wiki

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by montana05 »

Cody wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:38 pm Just about everything's heading south, from what I can see!

Blowing down the back roads, heading South!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9FzVhw8_bY :wink:
Trying to survive behind the controls of a Caduceus Psi XT in Alpha test :lol:
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by montana05 »

Cholmondely wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:58 am Interesting. As with the debate over counting kills of abandoned ships, I'm not sure that I agree. Sorry! Admittedly, I'm truly familiar with a mere handful of other computer games (Diablo I & II, MacPopulous II & Civilisation III) so I don't have the context to truly judge what a modern game needs to attract players.

For me, I'd argue that the game engine is good - although I can see very good arguments for keeping the graphics up-to-date. It is simple, even though it is illogical in places. I'd argue for including the following oxps as part of the core game with the option to opt out of them:
  • XenonUI: vital reminders of what the numerous keyboard options are for the various GUI screens (F5/F6/F7/F8).
  • Ship's Library OXP: with free MFD to read the ship's manual in flight [needs MFD friendly HUD & instructions on their use].
  • GalCop Galactic Registry: vital database of the galaxy
  • MarketObserver: provides vital comparison information for commodity prices on the F8 screen to help profit on trades
I'd also add a bunch of others of the ambience variety, and a few of the others.

Personally I see my Ooniverse through the lens of the introduction on the Oolite.org website:
The two thousand star systems of the Cooperative once enjoyed a golden age of peace and prosperity, and perhaps the wealthiest of them can still pretend to. The trade ships that once safely travelled between planets now have to be well armed and escorted to fend off pirate attacks, from small-time criminals desperate for their next meal, to powerful robber barons extracting tithes from everyone who passes through their space.

The Cooperative's police force, concentrated near a few influential planets, can no longer maintain order. The mercenaries they hire for a few credits a kill are too few, too unreliable to do so either. And in the darkness between the stars, an old enemy lurks, fearless, perhaps waiting for order to collapse entirely.
So I expect to spend my early years running away until I can build up my ship. When I have done so, I will know enough about the game to work out which .oxps I want to add to it. I don't expect a super ship. And the pirates would have them too.

Now what would be super, would be to either use the game mechanic built in by Cim or Norby's collection style of .oxp to have different universes: A more friendly Cherryh-style trading universe. Perhaps another with an organised enemy (daleks or klingons or whatever). A discovery universe. etc.

I'm not sure that any of that would need changes to the game engine. More like a selection of Norby's Collection-style oxps with one or two new oxps to fill in the gaps (emulating Cherryh would need "family-run" large trading ships & externally docking space stations, for example).
My proposed changes are very easy, any rookie could do. A_C will change serious code after hell is freezing over so lets start easy.
Trying to survive behind the controls of a Caduceus Psi XT in Alpha test :lol:
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:07 am
hiran wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:39 am So that extension is what I thought it would be. I was even able to purchase it, then I was not able to activate/use it. It may be a hen/egg problem...
Definitely is! You need a HUD.oxp loaded which supports MFDs (I presume that the Vanilla game HUD doesn't), and you need to understand the use of the : and ; keys to control the MFDs.
Ummm errr what shall I say? :oops: Being a newcomer so hard that I do not even know you can use : and ; to control the MFDs.
I use them to yaw the ship... :mrgreen:

EDIT: I am on a german keyboard layout, that may add another layer of difficulty. You might be referring to only one key?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ny.svg.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... yboard.png
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cholmondely »

hiran wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:45 pm
Cholmondely wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:07 am
hiran wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:39 am So that extension is what I thought it would be. I was even able to purchase it, then I was not able to activate/use it. It may be a hen/egg problem...
Definitely is! You need a HUD.oxp loaded which supports MFDs (I presume that the Vanilla game HUD doesn't), and you need to understand the use of the : and ; keys to control the MFDs.
Ummm errr what shall I say? :oops: Being a newcomer so hard that I do not even know you can use : and ; to control the MFDs.
I use them to yaw the ship... :mrgreen:

EDIT: I am on a german keyboard layout, that may add another layer of difficulty. You might be referring to only one key?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ny.svg.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... yboard.png
Hiran, I wish I could say something intelligent. The fact that I can cobble together a page on Keyboard Issues for the wiki does not mean that I really understand what all those wonderful people are saying! For keyboard issues like yours you need somebody else, I'm sorry. Try A_C_ or one of the other developers. Or better still, "pm" one of the people who sorted out an issue with another keyboard (like Reval or STyx) and see if you can reawaken their interest in matters Oolitic!

But the fault is not yours. I suspect it is due to the development of games generally. In the old days, games came with a manual with everything important in it. There is some truly superb material (.pdf's) in the Oolite download, but I suspect hardly anybody knows it is there or looks at it. One naturally gravitates towards the tutorial which is not written to teach about the oxp's - just about the vanilla game. And, of course, MFDs fall under the .oxp category.

I do feel that you hit the nail on the head with your analysis of how the wiki could work. There is a lot of excellent material on it, but when I first started looking at it seriously there were a lot of gaps, and it was not obvious how to navigate around if one did not know the specific term in the wiki for what one was looking for. I hope things are a little better now, but I suspect not all that much. I'm quite sure that people have difficulty finding what they want to know about when they search through it.

The first pageof the wiki is quite helpful, but I do wonder how many people go there first - or are aware of article linked to the icon on the Oolite main page. You are not the first person to be unaware of the : & ; keys. And while in the modern world one can produce material, one cannot be sure that people will see it - or recognise its significance. (And of course, even in the old days, there were many who never saw the manual - especially with popular games like Elite which were copied and passed around chums at school - just ask Cody).
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cody »

Cholmondely wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:50 pm... passed around chums at school - just ask Cody.
The only things being passed around when I was at school were reefers and magazines NSFW.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cholmondely »

hiran wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:54 pm For every ship, every equipment, every other item of the Ooniverse should exist a page with meaningful content.
Hiran, as we discussed in our PM's, I plan on pruning the optional optionals on the Oolite Equipment page (http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Equipment.

Are there any that you added that you think (or does anyone else think) should be kept (as examplars of something different/unique on the equipment front). You'll notice that all of your additions failed to link to the appropriate pages already existing in the wiki. In many cases the page already exists. Alas in some cases, it can be next to impossible to find using the search function.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cody »

I'm not sure if the Maintenance Overhaul should be classed as optional.
Last edited by Cody on Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:15 am Hiran, as we discussed in our PM's, I plan on pruning the optional optionals on the Oolite Equipment page (http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Equipment.

Are there any that you added that you think (or does anyone else think) should be kept (as examplars of something different/unique on the equipment front). You'll notice that all of your additions failed to link to the appropriate pages already existing in the wiki. In many cases the page already exists. Alas in some cases, it can be next to impossible to find using the search function.
I created empty references since after all I know when there is something missing but I would not know the content of the page.
Read it like 'I know questions, but I do not know the answers'.

For the mission to create content for each and every item for Oolite you can safely remove what I created. I further support that the OXP documentation should be part of the OXP, and there is a process to make all this available in meaningful places.
  • One of them is the wiki
  • One of them is the in-Oolite ship manual
  • there may be more...
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cholmondely »

Cody wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:20 am I'm not sure if the Maintenance Overhaul should be classed as optional.
Point taken. Ditto for fuel.

But in the threefold schema, there is nowhere else to put it, and it is part of the vanilla game, accessible through the F3 screen. It seems silly to give it a category of its own. But I have no strong feelings.

What would you suggest?
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cody »

Fuel could be classed as optional. It's feasible to play the game either never leaving Lave space (mining, scavenging, bounty hunting - there are such players), or hitch-hiking one's way around the first octant. Take the Easy Start option, and more equipment becomes available, plus one would be in a safer, more interesting system. If only it was possible to hitch a ride on a galactic jump (the Easy Start option would help there), but alas, NPCs are never seen to do that (an OXP, anyone?). The Maintenance Overhaul requires more thought - and Sunday dinner is calling!
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cody »

I've made a tiny edit to the description of the shields, and it's worth noting that view screens can also be selected by a hat-switch on a joystick.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cholmondely »

Cody wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:44 pm Fuel could be classed as optional. It's feasible to play the game either never leaving Lave space (mining, scavenging, bounty hunting - there are such players), or hitch-hiking one's way around the first octant. Take the Easy Start option, and more equipment becomes available, plus one would be in a safer, more interesting system. If only it was possible to hitch a ride on a galactic jump (the Easy Start option would help there), but alas, NPCs are never seen to do that (an OXP, anyone?). The Maintenance Overhaul requires more thought - and Sunday dinner is calling!
Hoping you survived your Sunday dinner.

Surely, in the same way that fuel is optional, so too is the Maintenance Overhaul. If you want to run your Cobra into the ground, nobody other than your crew is going to stop you (and even then, reading Captain Hesperus ...).

Stranger wrote about people who never do their maintenance overhaul since all it affects is misjumps:
Ship dynamics as function of technical state

The so-called serviceLevel parameter is mostly hidden from the player. Starting from a value of 100 it gradually decreases with every hyperjump to 75 and remains frozen at this 75 value until the next renovation/maintenance servicing of the ship. The only visible effect is the decreasing sales price of the ship.

Why I must pay 1...1.5% of ship price (1500+ credits for Cobra Mk III!) for just a cosmetic renovation if I don’t have plans to sell my ship now or in the nearest appropriate system?

Well, serviceLevel affects malfunction probability too: so in real reality you’ll want to invest in your own security if misjumping – sooner or later due to poor maintenance – is not your favoured option. But in the game you always have the save/load option. So an increased malfunction probability is not enough motivation, and I know players who never spend money for a ship maintenance overhaul. The situation will be different if ship performance will be a function of the ship's technical state.

If you have a vanilla Cobra Mk III, for example, it has maximum speed of 350 and an energy recharge rate of 4.0. The ship technical state degrades over time from an initial 100 points to 75 points. The maximum speed of unmaintained Cobra is now reduced to 328, the energy recharge rate to 3.5. Wear & tear effect also affects the fuel collection rate. If you have fuel collection rate of 1.0 LY/min in a vanilla Cobra Mk III, the fuel collection rate of a highly used Cobra now drops to 0.8 LY/min.

Next example, maybe more obvious. You just switched from your old good Cobra Mk III to a Cobra III XT. She is pretty: max speed 375, thrust 36 and energy recharge rate 4.5. Well, if you’ll avoid regular maintenance, its performance will degrade to a speed of 352, thrust of 32 and energy recharge rate of 3.9 – almost similar to a regularly maintained Cobra Mk III. So the only your advantage in battle will be an energy capacity of 320 instead of 256 – and maybe the 6 missile hardpoints instead of 4.

Commander Jameson, the Ooniverse is not as friendly personally to you as you like to think. Do regular maintenance to restore your ship's maximum performance!
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cody »

Lack of fuel doesn't degrade one's maintenance level. I'm not sure whether hitch-hiking degrades one's maintenance level. It should. Devs?
However, as you wish - I only said fuel could be classed as optional. I still think the Maintenance Overhaul shouldn't be.

But in the game you always have the save/load option.
Not if one is playing Ironman, as some do.




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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cholmondely »

Cody wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:41 pm Lack of fuel doesn't degrade one's maintenance level. I'm not sure whether hitch-hiking degrades one's maintenance level. It should. Devs?
However, as you wish - I only said fuel could be classed as optional. I still think the Maintenance Overhaul shouldn't be.

But in the game you always have the save/load option.
Not if one is playing Ironman, as some do.
I've added a rider to the section which I hope will satisfy us both. And thanks for tweaking!

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
hiran wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:45 pm Ummm errr what shall I say? :oops: Being a newcomer so hard that I do not even know you can use : and ; to control the MFDs.
I use them to yaw the ship...
Hiran, I've rejigged the Oolite Equipment page to try and answer your comments. Could you have a quick decko and let me know if it's any better?
Last edited by Cholmondely on Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cholmondely »

Oolite Trading page (http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Trading)

Unhappy with this page. Seems too long-winded and not Oolite specific.

I suspect that despite the title (Oolite Trading), much of the advice was filched from "The Space Traders Flight Training Manual" from Classic Elite.

I'd like to rewrite (unless someone else is desperate to!) and include the new key-commands for the F8 screen. Bung the Classic Elite content on a new page for Classic Elite.

Any comments?
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